I was nabbed by a policeman yesterday for tossing my ciggy down a drain. But yet I see Thais spit and throw rubbish in the street every day!

" But yet I see Thais spit and throw rubbish in the street every day!'

but tourists are an easy mark ( and the thais know the score, and dont/won't pay)

Thank you Mikey, I see, so the dog bites the hand that feeds it?.

yes, short sighted.

get the money now, and not worry about tomorrows concequences

if you were around siam square on the bts walkway there are signs everywhere that say, there is fine of 2000 baht for littering.

I've been to BKK many times and I guess my luck ran out this time. I was 'nabbed' or conned a few days ago as I was just about to cross the road to go to the Nana hotel. Yes, I did litter a cigarette butt and I kinda did so unconsciously - as you do. Bad habit, I know.

Anyway, out of nowhere this police dude came up to me and told me that I had littered and that I broke the law, and I had to pay a fine. I offered my apologies and to pick the offending butt, and promised not to do it again. Nothing. He just told me to walk with him, and as he did so he was asking me if I was holiday, and from what country - the usual bollox. Obviously, doing this he's merely confirming that I'm not a Thai national. Bastard.

We stopped at this little booth thing a hundred metres or so from the entrance of the Nana Plaza/hotel street ( near the JW Marriott) , and the first police guy left and the guy inside the booth took over. He showed me this laminated sheet regarding the law that I had broken, and how much the fine was. I tried to read it but obviously it's infused with a lot of legalese, and my brain zoned out after a few paragraphs - it was two fucking pages, man! - but basically, it said that I was liable to a 10,000 Baht fine for littering, but as a first offender, I was liable for a fine of 2000 baht. Shit!

In my mind, I did litter, and that I should get a caution, and I was certainly not very willing to pay a 2000 baht fine - it's the principle. I'm a tight bastard, I suppose, as well. Anyway, I'm not one for arguing with the police of another land, especially the Thai police, so although I was trying to convince the copper in the booth I was sorry, and that it would never happen again, and hopefully just walk away, I also knew this was an unlikey scenario, so, what to do?

I knew that money was going to be involved, so I acted like a spazz, and basically kept giving him reasons as to how I could not pay him 2000 baht, and I just talked shit and more shit and tried to wear him down. I went onto this tale of how I had lost my wallet in Koh Samui, and so I had a few hundred left - the wallet with the huge wodge of big notes was safely inside my bag and was gonna stay there no matter what - and how I didn't have a credit card, but a debit card so it wouldn't work in all ATMs, and actually it's just one bank - the HSBC - that I can get money from, and it's closed today ( Sunday)...and so on and on...total and utter pish...

Anyway, when travelling, I sometimes have two wallets - one a dummy one with limited notes and passed it credit cards and other crap I could afford to lose - but that day I had a small pouch to store some money for quick buying instead of delving into my other, and fuller wallet for all to see. From this pouch I pulled out about 460 Baht, and told him that's all I had and showed it to him, and knowingly placed it onto the sill of the booth window - all the time repeating I can't pay the 2000 baht. Anyway, I kept rabbiting on and on, and even said I now have no money, and I need the 60 baht to get some food as I had not eaten all day. I'm pretty sure most of what I was saying he had no idea what I was on about...but I'm sure he knew that I was unwilling to pay the full fine, but however, I was willing to pay 400. It's amazing how just the sight of money changes a greedy coont. I'm thinking he felt it was better than nothing, and looked around like a thief before taking the money from the sill and grinning. I knew then that was it, and I could get outta there. So, still talking crap about having no money I strolled away.

As I turned right to head into the Nana hotel again, I walked passed the coont cop who originally nabbed me. He actually asked me how much I paid. I merely replied 'too much' and walked quickly on, thinking he could make up some other law I might have broken if I didn't.

I count myself lucky, basically. It's a waste of 400 baht, but I guess I'd rather pay that than 2000, or the hassles of getting involved with the Thai police in whatever manner, even if i wanted to challenge it, or even if I was innocent. I just don't want to be involved with the police whilst I'm on holiday in their land.

So, the scam is very real. And can be a bit scary for newcomers to BKK, but the blow can be softened if you keep your cool and realise that the police just want to make some money, and that it's pointless getting involved with them by challenging the fine. Accept it, give something, and get the F out of there.

interesting the link for the Tourist Police on this site goes to thai language site first, and the link to the english language

how much bother would it have been to post the correct link

http://www.thaitouristpolice.com/main.php


( even if it seems to be mostly nonsense)

Hi Kevin, thanks thats really usefull information, but has no reflection on the expereience i had. People are using these laws to there own advantage.

Simon,

Bad exeperience mate, but you seemed you got out of it reasonably good. Lets hope we stay out of there way in future visits, as i wont stop viisitng!

Cheers,

Joe

Yep, Just been hit by that one less than 5 minutes ago... Played soft and negotiated down to 500 baht for a first offence and then found this website!

Here for 2 weeks and my girl arrives on Monday - glad I'm a little bit wiser!

I'm not quite sure why this is an issue, there are bunches of bins all over the place I think that one should we be mindful about. If a police officer or claiming a police officer gets one attention and asks for a fine, I certainly wouldn't be concerned of the fine but of my behavior. Much that I'm not in my home country and just a guest. I would react better if one asks me to pay something I haven't known and done.....

I wonder what could have happened as well, if that "claiming" police officer insisted for you to go to the police center and have your violation documented, THAT IF you were really violating a certain LAW. :)

I'm not quite sure if there were some changes in the amount of the fine, but please always keep in mind. The maximum fine for litter was 2000 Baht and that depends on the amount you litter.
So for a cigarette butt I would never pay the maximum amount, not even more than 500 Baht.
I experience this scam once at the Chatuchak Sunday Market.
I was butting a cigarette butt on the floor, when I was stopped by a so called Clean Watcher (those are no police officer, remember).
I liked to play with him and talked to him in English what he wanted. He tried to explain I had to pay some fine for butting a cigarette butt on the floor. I called my girlfriend, she was walking 10 meter in front me and ask her to explain to me, where my fun stopped. She asked me in Thai why I would speak with the officer in English, since I can speak Thai and what the problem was. The sudden face change of the officer was priceless. He looked at me and asked if I'm Thai? I answered with a yes and showed him my Thai ID. For all who didn't get it yet, I'm half-half and look more then a foreigner then a Thai.
He suddenly changed his mind and say I can go, without warning and everything. I would have paid the fine, but not more than 500 Baht. But what I like to tell with this story is, it is OK for Thai to litter, but for a foreigner they doing if you had just killed someone and this is fu... up.

Worked in Bangkok for 6 months and must of been hassled 50 times by scammers. Every time just turned to them and said a la Monty Python Scam scam scam scam scam wonderful scam they always buggered off. Remember everyone and I mean everyone is trying to stitch you up!

Thank you 50-50, now I know the score!

some Thai phrases that might help:

Mai dai (sounds like 'my die') means: 'no way!'

paeng pai (payng pie) = too expensive

mai mee ngern = (I) don't have any money

mai supap = not proper

For the last 15 years I have been a very regular visitor to Thailand. My hobby is wildlife photography and the Kingdom has so much to offer.
I like to think that I am fairly streetwise, but even for a seasoned traveller it is still easy to get taken in.
On my last visit ,a few weeks ago, I was doing some last minute shopping in MBK (Bangkok). After spending quite some time walking around the centre, I decided to make my way back to my apartment, stopping to collect a take out ice coffee from one of the well known franchise on the ground floor.
Knowing that I would not be allowed to take the drink onto the BTS, I decided to sit on the steps outside the centre, sip my drink and watch the world go by for 10 minutes or so.
Having almost finished my drink, I got up and had just started to walk in the direction of the BTS, looking for a rubbish bin, when a voice from behind me said “Excuse me sir”. I turned around to see a man in paramilitary type uniform. Not a uniform that I immediately recognised.
He informed me in broken English that he was a policemen, and that he had seen me stub out my cigarette and drop it on the floor. He told me that I had committed a serious offence and that I would have to pay a fine.
I politely informed him that he must be mistaken. He asked why. I told him that I’ve never smoked in my life. He said that he had seen me and that he was not blind. He then produced a cigarette stub from his pocket and told me this was the evidence. He then demanded I hand over 2000 Baht.
I tried to reason with him, I even offered to turn out my pockets to prove that I neither had any cigarettes on me or matches/lighter. He was having none of it. “You break the law, you have to pay. You not pay, you go to prison for long time”.
By now he had taken a pad from his back pocket and began writing on it. He then gave me a piece of paper from the pad and again demanded that I hand over 2000 baht. The document he gave me was in Thai, part was pre-printed with gaps that he had written something in Thai – I confess, I am not able to read Thai.

I realised that this was some sort of scam. The guy was clearly after ‘tea’ money. But as I did not know if he was a real policeman or not, I had no idea how I was going to get out of this situation without creating a scene, and possibly being arrested if he was a real policeman .

I protested that I just been shopping in the centre and that I did not have that sort of money on me. Like a previous contributor to this blog, I always have two wallets on me. I took out my dummy one and showed him that I only had about 200 Baht, enough money to get a taxis and a meal that evening.

He said you have card, you go to ATM get money. He then pointed in the direction of one of the nearby banks. What he had actually seen in the dummy wallet was an expired frequent flyer card. I have to give this guy 10 out of 10 for being persistent.

I agreed to go to the bank and get some money, and started to walk in the direction of the nearest bank accompanied closely by this uniformed guy. My thought was that I would fake a transaction, and tell him that I had no money left in my account and take it from there.

When we got to the doorof the bank, he said I wait here you get money and bring back to me. As I entered the bank I noticed that he had turned around and was facing the opposite direction – not looking inside the bank.

I was in luck. I had been to this bank before to change currency, and I knew that there were two entrances, one from the road where I had just entered, and a second from inside MBK. So what did I do, I just kept walking out of the second entrance into MBK and up the nearby escalator to the first floor.

I have to admit, my heart was in overdrive. I kept looking over my shoulder to see if he was following. As I walked across that road bridge to the Siam Centre I could see him still outside the bank, pacing up and down.

It took some time (about 5 minutes or more) before he realised that something was wrong. He opened the bank door, peered in. He obviously realised then that there was a second entrance and that I had dissapeared. I would love to have been a fly on the wall to hear what he said. I can only imagine the flood of Thai expletives. But his body language said it all.

As he walked back up the road he took out the pad again from his back pocket and tore a sheet of paper from it. He screwed the sheet of paper up, and guess what. He throw it on the floor.

I’m now a bit older, I have a few more grey hairs, but I am certainly a bit wiser.

Hi. I live here in Thailand (Chiang Mai). If you are ever stopped for anything, insist you go to the police station to pay any fine. Make sure you ask which police station you are going to. Don't go on a motorcycle. Go only in a police car. Get a receipt for any money you give. Get an ID or Badge number. Have them explain to you in English or whatever your mother language is, exactly what you have done. Keep saying you don't understand AND DENY EVER HAVING DONE IT. Do not try to speak Thai and only speak your mother language. This will, for the most part, discourage them from going any further. Worst case, tell them you want to speak to your consulate. This is the last thing the Thai police want you to do. If you paid them you are one of 50 to 100 people a day they 'hit up' for money. The police are horribly paid and horribly corrupt. Having said that it is always the few who ruin it for the majority and not all the police are corrupt. This is how they make extra money on the side (or should I say enough money to live a decent life).

Example: I was stopped at a place where the police set up an area to ticket people. My Thai wife was not wearing a helmet and I was. We were waved over. She got off the motorcycle to talk to the police. Since my arms are about the same color as a Thai, he must have thought I was Thai. He started to take my wife's ID and ask her her where mine was and why I wasn't getting off the motorcycle. She called me and when I took off my helmet, he did an instant about face. Gave back her ID and said to make sure next time she wore a helmet. No fine, no ticket. He couldn't speak any English and I wasn't about to speak any Thai. End of discussion.

@Stewie. I'm not so sure your advise is wise.

Police everywhere take pride in demonstrating their authority and punishing those who supposedly disrespect them. In Thailand, if you behave as you suggested in front of other people, you might make a cop lose face, for which he will surely go after you.

Escalating might work sometimes, but you occasionally run into a wrong cop, it could cost you dearly... remember the couple that was *murdered* by a cop in Kanchanaburi over loss of face?

My approach would be to speak Thai (if you can speak it well enough), wai, apologize and politely offer a smaller appropriate amount (maybe 100-200 baht or so) on the spot. Their goal is usually to pocket *some* money and move on. For a Thai, an accepted bribe can be as low as 40 baht (seen a taxi driver pay this for making a forbidden turn).

@Crocodilexp, I agree with Stewie, as long as you smile and show respect, why would the policeman lose face? Especially if you have done NOTHING wrong.

Hi guys, police play the scam as well, I too butted out a cigarette a police man in full uniform directed my girlfriend (Thai) and myself to another 4 uniformed officers and fined me 5000 baht. (remember there are 5 uniformed officers 1000 baht each) My girlfriend said asked for a receipt in which I did, the officers play stupid and pretended that they didn't understand English. So my girlfriend asked them for a receipt in Thai. All the officers looked at each other, all of the sudden I was paying 250 baht with a written receipt on the spot was handed out.

ol'tiger...you're a jackass..

...and a p***y...

@Daniel, if I was your ma, I would wash your mouth out with raw chilli soap!

Come on man, don't be rude, not everyone can be as hard as guys like you and me?

I have had 20 holidays in thailand, apart from a service girl leaving my room too early in the morning from that promised, the only odd people approaching me for money have been westerners pretending thay have run out of money, I once gave an irishman 100 baht, which he went straight back to a bar and brought a beer.

I was at the exchange booth next to the 7-11/gas station at the end of Nana Soi 4 awhile back and got caught dropping a fag butt.
The copper wanted a 2000bht littering fine(he knew I had it on me because I had just had a change up) but as I had the phone No of a senior ranking Policeman I had been drinking with the day before,I gave him a call and we got it down to 200bht.
The very next trip,I was at the same place doing the same thing and I could see the same policeman lurking behind me in the reflection of the exchange booth window.
I put my fag out then put the butt in my pocket and wagged my finger at him while saying,"Not this time Pal!"

@Rusty, have you tried nicorette with fruit chilli, its great mate!

I see these BMA Police stalking foreigners all day long.
It a big money maker.
Always amazes how immoral and unethical the Thais really are.
Scam your best customers. Really stupid...but typical Thai mentality.

When I was busted for dropping a butt on the footpath I was booked for indecent exposure......

Interesting comment from someone on the Nation's forum!

" Besides the suffocating pollution from diesel buses, two-stroke bikes and tuk-tuks and idle taxis, never-ending traffic jams, rampant corruption in the police and politicians, multitudes of prostitution parlors and street-walkers, ignorant beggars with innocent babies sitting under bridges, ineffective schooling and law systems, plastic bags littering the last few remaining square meters of green in the city, excessive noise pollution from loud speakers at malls and modified bikes, inconsiderate pedestrians unaware of anything going on around them or people wanting to pass them, lax safety standards or any standards for that matter, suicidal bus and taxi drivers, dilapidated housing, open sewerage rotting in the sun, the smell of excrement every few meters, noisy and insolent children, deep-fried food being part of a child’s staple diet, swindlers, pirates and scams, obtrusive hierarchical systems with incompetent managers, superficial outlooks on money and happiness, glorified focus on appearance, rude people standing in front of an exit of a train or bus trying to shove their way onboard, spoiled children, deserted Buddhist values, cruelty to animals (elephants, birds and fish for example), unabashed yet unwarranted elitism and egotism, and the apathy of people to resolve any of the above, Bangkok is a great place to live. "

How about you guys just don't go to other countries and litter cigarette butts. use AN ASHCAN. it takes a but up to 8 years to decompose. DON"T LITTER!!!!!

@Reginald
Nice one Reggie.... that about sums it up - could not have expressed it better myself..... sadly it's a love hate relationship for most major cities these days!!! I wonder if the original writer was Thai or farang.

@Shan, thanks, farang I believe.

Just to say i class myself as fairly streetwise. If someone comes up to me the first thing i say is "what do you want from me"? They normally show some kind of expression on there face. Then i say to them "If i want something from you i go to you, If you want some thing from me, you come to me. I then either smile or tell them to F...K OFF!!

@Knobby37, I would just like to say, if you do this to a Thai I hope you have good medical insurance, because when one Thai fights a farang, they'll all join in (no rule book here I'm afraid) and the police will arrest you, kapish?